Budget Committee - October 15, 2025   10/15/2025

Roll Call

• • 00:01:37
    St Paul, City Council,
  • 00:04:35
    City of St Paul, City Council
• • Nelsie Yang
  • 00:07:54
    I'm going to get our Budget Committee meeting started.
  • 00:07:59
    I want to first give a shout-out to Vice Chair Kim, who has been chairing our Budget Committees while I'm out on maternity leave.
  • 00:08:06
    She's out today, so that's why you see me here chairing again.
  • 00:08:09
    Also, thanks to her legislator, A. W. Hamid, who has been doing a wonderful job prepping all of the Budget Committees.
  • 00:08:14
    And additionally, I want to say thanks to all of our Council staff, and also our Chief Budget Officer have been doing a really fantastic job just leading us along the way.
  • 00:08:24
    So we have two presentations today, the first one from our talent and
  • 00:08:29
    and then the second one is Ramsey County Tax Evaluation Trends.
  • 00:08:35
    So, Director Newborn, we're really excited to have you here today.
  • 00:08:38
    I will give you the floor and then we'll take questions along the way.
  • 00:08:42
    And I just want to acknowledge too we have a couple of council members who will be joining us in a bit.
• • SPEAKER_02
  • 00:08:46
    Chair Yang, thank you so much, and Council, thank you for the opportunity to present before everyone Tony Newborn, pronouns she, her, her.
  • 00:08:53
    I'm the Director of Talent and Equity Resources, formerly known as HR.
  • 00:08:58
    We may use both terminologies in this space.
  • 00:09:01
    I'm happy to present our budget presentation and just want to note that we did add a slide related, not related to the budget, but related to hero process.
  • 00:09:13
    We were asked by
  • 00:09:14
    Council Member Johnson and Vice President Kim to present some information related to that hiring process to help us be prepared for next year.
  • 00:09:24
    So you will see that addition has nothing to do with the budget presentation, but only to take the opportunity for us to chat today.
  • 00:09:32
    So our agenda, we're going to go through the executive summary, budget recap, updates on recent initiatives.
  • 00:09:40
    I'll spend a lot of time in that space because I want to talk about the amazing work that our team has done.
  • 00:09:44
    2026 proposed changes, budget history, spending summary, FTE summary, unfilled positions, which is just one for us currently.
  • 00:09:53
    our projects update, revenue changes and outlooks and then question and answers.
  • 00:10:00
    You will see some slides that are in the appendix.
  • 00:10:04
    Three of those slides is highlighting the vacancy, not vacancy report, but the vacancy process.
  • 00:10:12
    Because that conversation and questions have come up quite a bit from the council and just overall,
  • 00:10:18
    between working with OFS and TER and the Council.
  • 00:10:22
    We wanted to just have a couple of informational slides for your review.
  • 00:10:26
    And if you have any questions about that, please let us know.
  • 00:10:29
    So advancing through the slides, the executive summary, our priorities in talent and equity resources are around prioritizing learning and development.
  • 00:10:38
    of the City of St. Paul.
  • 00:11:00
    I'm strengthening our recruitment and retention efforts as you all may have heard from Mayor Carter that really focusing on recruiting and hiring residents into the city and so that is a top priority of TER and we have staffing that was invested into TER some years ago, a couple of years ago and we'll talk a little bit later on about that ROI, the return on that investment and the work that we're doing in that space.
  • 00:11:28
    and fostering our own culture in our department as well as across the city with talent and equity resources being I see them see us as the nucleus of the organization we touch almost everything as a part of the city and city operations and so when we change our culture that means that we're impacting and influencing the culture across the city as well.
  • 00:11:50
    and then finally implementing negotiation strategy.
  • 00:11:55
    Our Deputy Director Jason Schmidt is leading that effort.
  • 00:11:59
    We're in negotiation season so y'all are going to start hearing some things from lots of different people including us about what that strategy is and how we're getting to yes on those contracts over the next probably six plus months.
  • 00:12:16
    Budget changes that you'll see for 2025, some spending reductions, supplies reductions that we underwent, and a reduction in our overtime budget.
  • 00:12:28
    And then one of our strategies for TER is around knowing that we're in kind of a tight budget space.
  • 00:12:36
    if we can take in the opportunity to hire at a certain or a lower step than instead of the highest step or the highest salary range that's been a strategy for us to help the city achieve its budget goals.
  • 00:12:54
    2025 budget recap, again, saving strategy has been based around backfilling open positions at lower steps as I mentioned before.
  • 00:13:02
    Some unplanned cost for this year is a cyber attack.
  • 00:13:07
    And we realized, I think the city kind of realized when we think about
  • 00:13:12
    and the impact that the cyber attack was going to have.
  • 00:13:16
    We have payroll in our department and so payroll, TER was significantly impacted by that cyber attack where we weren't able to access networks and drives and all sorts of things.
  • 00:13:28
    related to timekeeping.
  • 00:13:31
    And so that resulted in prioritizing payroll, our staff, city staff getting paid of course to be able to do the work.
  • 00:13:39
    And we needed to, our staff, our payroll staff spent a lot of time in the EOC and worked overtime during those two months.
  • 00:13:48
    And we're still in that recovery stage as well.
  • 00:13:50
    And last but not least, we did hire some temporary payroll staff to help with the, to respond to the cyber attack.
  • 00:14:19
    This is where I'm going to brag on my team, and I have some of my teammates here and colleagues here in the space.
  • 00:14:26
    Two years ago, I think, or maybe three, there was a huge investment that was given, granted by this council to TER, and we were greatly appreciative of that investment, one in which
  • 00:14:40
    that our department hadn't received and probably Jason has been our deputy director has been at the city for 30 years 27 all right 27 years and he's yet to this is the first significant investment that our department had to receive so we're really excited about it
  • 00:14:57
    and here are some of that, this is that ROI and I won't go through each one of these but just want to lift up.
  • 00:15:03
    Under our training and development we have a Deputy Director Abigail Madea who's been leading the work and so all of these amazing emails that you're seeing about referee to coach or workplace conduct training
  • 00:15:15
    and Data Practices Training.
  • 00:15:18
    All of those things are coming out of that division in Talent and Equity Resources.
  • 00:15:22
    We have 964 employees trained.
  • 00:15:25
    We also, this team also handles the new employee orientation as well.
  • 00:15:31
    And so seeing a lot of interest as well as positive feedback related to those.
  • 00:15:36
    Open Sesame users, if you haven't joined, Open Sesame is our online platform for training.
  • 00:15:43
    as well for our city employees.
  • 00:15:45
    So if you haven't joined, please do so.
  • 00:15:48
    And we're seeing a 23% increase in users for that.
  • 00:15:53
    Launched our referee to coach, and I just did the graduation ceremony on Monday.
  • 00:15:59
    and I can't remember the number of folks who graduated from the program but it's kind of our professional development effort for folks who are ready to advance from being that individual contributor to a manager or supervisor or they're already in that role and so this is a resource and a training to assist them with that.
  • 00:16:16
    Our payroll team, one of those investments that we received two years ago was an additional FTE on our payroll team which has been helpful to focus on our Parks Department.
  • 00:16:27
    Our Parks Department from a payroll perspective is very complicated because their staffing model is dynamic, very nuanced and it's a complex matrix and so we have to pay everyone within that complex matrix and so
  • 00:16:45
    having someone dedicated to help release some of those administrative burdens around payrolls or parks has been really helpful.
  • 00:16:52
    and then continuing to collaborate with OTC on our onboarding process.
  • 00:16:57
    We've heard from staff that it's too long, right?
  • 00:17:00
    And there's some hiccups and kinks in that process that both TER and OTC need to work through to ensure that as we bring people into the space, they're not mad at us because we've taken however long to give them a username and password or access to the systems.
  • 00:17:16
    so we have dedicated staff in partnership with OTC on working on those kinks and those issues.
  • 00:17:25
    Our equity and inclusion work, and welcome Council Member Johnson, our equity and inclusion work, we've launched our equity and inclusion speaker series, we've updated our equity dashboard which has been amazing and such a great tool in use for our department directors and our staff as well.
  • 00:17:45
    I mentioned the resident recruitment work.
  • 00:17:48
    Heidi Lee leads that division in talent and equity resources, and that division is focusing on increasing the number and percentages of residents in our city workforce, as has been one of the priorities of the mayor.
  • 00:18:02
    So we're establishing more partnership.
  • 00:18:04
    It's kind of our community arm to TER, garnering interest in working for the city, keeping people in those roles and building those pipelines into the city.
  • 00:18:14
    as a starting point maybe at the entry level but also doing some work for folks who are saying, I'm tired of working in T.E.R.
  • 00:18:21
    I want to go and work in X department or a council or whatever else.
  • 00:18:25
    What's the pathway for them to get there?
  • 00:18:27
    And so Heidi and her team are leading that effort as well.
  • 00:18:33
    Outsourcing FMLA was a budget ask a couple of years ago.
  • 00:18:38
    We decided that it would be best to utilize repurposed staff to provide, expand our benefits offerings, expand our reach to our employees as it relates to our benefits.
  • 00:18:50
    We have amazing benefits, and I know some of you all have tapped into them.
  • 00:18:54
    You may have heard me say this, I now have two children and my goal was always to have my babies for free.
  • 00:19:01
    And I was able to do that at the city.
  • 00:19:04
    And I will say as a funny note, for my second baby, who she's a year now, 13 months tomorrow, we got a bill for $40 afterwards.
  • 00:19:16
    How dare they send me a $40 bill?
  • 00:19:19
    And my husband's like, Tony, you had a $40,000 procedure because I had a C-section.
  • 00:19:25
    And so $40, I think we can handle it.
  • 00:19:28
    So we have amazing insurance, and we want to make sure that our employees know that as well.
  • 00:19:33
    So we now have Standard as our FMLA provider, and then again, as we are working to improve our efforts on outreach to our staff and talking about our benefits.
  • 00:19:44
    We also have a public information specialist, TER, HR.
  • 00:19:49
    We didn't have a communications person in our department and we do a lot of stuff.
  • 00:19:55
    We tell you all a lot of things and it's important for us to have someone skilled in that space to be able to send out that information so that our employees know and improve communications that are coming out of our team.
  • 00:20:07
    So that has been a welcome add to our team as well.
  • 00:20:11
    And last but not least is our hiring team, consulting services, which includes our hiring team as well as class and comp.
  • 00:20:20
    And so the investments with an FTE there have been helpful to improve our processing time for how long does it take us to hire someone into the city.
  • 00:20:32
    and starting from A to Z of that requisition to the initial start date.
  • 00:20:37
    And so those investments have been helpful so that we can reduce those timelines there.
  • 00:20:44
    Any questions?
  • 00:20:46
    Okay, great.
  • 00:20:47
    2026 proposed changes.
  • 00:20:49
    For us, we're a small department, we have 47 and maybe some change FTEs.
  • 00:20:56
    So when asked to reduce spending and reduce kind of our budget line items, we have to be very creative about that so that we don't get to staff because we're pretty lean.
  • 00:21:07
    and I think we have been fairly creative around this.
  • 00:21:11
    Eliminating labor soft, it's a software that we use through our labor relations team and also with, I think maybe with workplace conduct as well.
  • 00:21:20
    It's a system that we weren't, that just didn't fit our needs.
  • 00:21:23
    We no longer, the licensing fee for that is $30,000.
  • 00:21:27
    We no longer need that system, so we're eliminating that, so that's a cost savings for us.
  • 00:21:30
    Reducing our general professional services budget, so that may mean conferences being reduced, or for sure out of state conferences, that being reduced for staff and really focusing on more local efforts for professional development.
  • 00:21:50
    Also, I think that's included in that General Service or Professional Service budget.
  • 00:21:56
    And I may be wrong about this, but I think it's included is we were renting space because we've outgrown our space.
  • 00:22:03
    We're on the second and third floor of the City Hall Annex and we have 10 additional employees that are on our team that were hired over the last three to four years.
  • 00:22:12
    and we've outgrown our space.
  • 00:22:14
    We rented the first floor in the City Hall Annex and we had a relationship, a partnership with Ramsey County to share that space and because of the needs around the budget, we are now going to give up that space and then everybody's going to snuggle on the second and third floor and we'll work out a schedule for people coming into the office there.
  • 00:22:35
    So you'll see that change as well.
  • 00:22:38
    I talked about reducing
  • 00:22:40
    repurposing some of our positions.
  • 00:22:42
    We've had a higher level position that we've said, hey, we don't need that as a part of the budget cut.
  • 00:22:48
    And we're going to hire, instead of hiring an HR consultant for, we're going to hire an HR consultant to, which is to provide an example.
  • 00:22:55
    So there's going to be some cost savings that are ongoing for this budget.
  • 00:23:03
    to reduce budgets for reserve for promotions as well.
  • 00:23:08
    So we have some vacant position adjustment that's important.
  • 00:23:12
    So all of these things are going to lead to that cost savings that we were asked to achieve from the mayor.
  • 00:23:21
    I won't bore you with this one.
  • 00:23:23
    I think it's helpful to see our history from 2021 to up until this moment in 2025, what our budget has been, the changes that are happening in our budget.
  • 00:23:35
    I think it was 2023.
  • 00:23:37
    for that budget where we saw the significant increase in TER and it's been helpful for our operations.
  • 00:23:46
    But we've been pretty steady and usually they'll brag on us.
  • 00:23:51
    We usually give up some money at the end of the year that goes into helping to fill whatever gap that needs to be filled on a city-wide level.
  • 00:24:02
    And this just is the summary of the spending as well.
  • 00:24:06
    You'll see the central service fund, you'll see our general fund for the total amount here.
  • 00:24:11
    I won't spend a lot of time here, but you'll see some of those changes and more detailed questions of course as OFS.
  • 00:24:17
    But if there are things that we can be helpful in answering, happy to do so.
  • 00:24:22
    and the City Council.
  • 00:24:42
    on board with spending.
  • 00:24:45
    So I think we'll still have a little bit of extra, but we've historically have always given up money and have not overspent our budget, which I'm happy with.
  • 00:24:59
    FTE summary, as I mentioned before, and welcome Council Member Bui.
  • 00:25:04
    As I mentioned before about the FTE summary, we have a little bit under 50 FTEs.
  • 00:25:09
    We had a little bit more closer to that 50 number during the COVID, the pandemic, where we had the ARP funding there.
  • 00:25:18
    Those folks have since rolled off out of that funding, and so we have 47 FTEs in TER.
  • 00:25:28
    Unfilled positions as of today's date, which we are actively working on filling and probably within the next couple of weeks.
  • 00:25:36
    We've had some transition on our team.
  • 00:25:39
    Chrissy Haughey has now been promoted to serving as our Testing Consulting Services Manager.
  • 00:25:45
    in TER, we have her open position.
  • 00:25:49
    And as I mentioned to you before, our strategy is, well, we realize we don't need a HR consultant to fill that position as a part of the cost saving strategy we're going to hire at a lower level at a step two.
  • 00:26:02
    So that is in process and I think probably, I don't know if I can promise by the end of this month, but probably the end of November we'll have that position filled.
  • 00:26:15
    So that's the end of my formal presentation.
  • 00:26:18
    As I mentioned to you before, as an appendix to this presentation, we did add a couple of slides about the vacancy, and I could go through that, or if you have questions about all of the things that we presented, or in particular the vacancy, happy to do that.
  • 00:26:35
    or third option is I can move to chatting about the HERO director hiring process as well.
  • 00:26:42
    So we do have a slide ready for that.
• • Nelsie Yang
  • 00:26:44
    So I'll pause.
  • 00:26:45
    Yeah, thank you, Director Newborn.
  • 00:26:47
    Can you go through the HERO director position?
  • 00:26:49
    Just because I know that that was a specific question that came from our pre-meeting.
• • SPEAKER_02
  • 00:26:54
    As the Council may know, under the ordinance, the Mayor has to let the Council know when there is a vacancy in the Human Rights and Economic Opportunity Department.
  • 00:27:14
    and all of that, that process is outlined by ordinance.
  • 00:27:17
    So we follow that pretty closely.
  • 00:27:21
    So we have to let you know of the vacancy in that department and then that jump starts the ordinance outline process.
  • 00:27:30
    PROS process is different from all the other directors and the reason for that is because it's specifically outlined in the ordinance and there's only two other departments that has a hiring process at the director or chief level
  • 00:27:43
    So for all three of those departments, we have to notify you, the mayor's office has to notify you, hey, there's a vacancy.
  • 00:28:11
    And then that starts the process.
  • 00:28:13
    where your role is, is that you select the selection committee who is going to provide recommendations to the mayor as to who should be the next human rights hero director.
  • 00:28:30
    so in the past it's been a partnership and I think the ordinance may make some mention of HR's role in this but very slight you you you're the ones this body is the one that starts out the process you we work with in the past we work with you on the selection process you all should talk about how you want to do the selection process there's
  • 00:28:53
    a couple of readings at council as to confirming who those folks who are going to be on the selection committee.
  • 00:29:01
    We also assist you with the job description as well.
  • 00:29:04
    And the council's via ordinance, by ordinance, the council is responsible for identifying what those qualifications are for this particular position.
  • 00:29:14
    So in the past, it's been a partnership between TERHR and the council to assist with that.
  • 00:29:21
    And we would want to talk with you about what that looks like.
  • 00:29:25
    In response to, so the mayor's office has already sent that letter over to council president saying there's a vacancy.
  • 00:29:31
    The council's response was that we wanted to wait until 2026 to start that process.
  • 00:29:38
    As a part of planning for that, we would like to connect with you all to just kind of sketch out a timeline, a plan, so that we're not starting in January of 2026.
  • 00:29:53
    And the reason for that is that this process can take some time.
  • 00:29:56
    So there's a couple of readings at council once you get, so there's a 30 day posting.
  • 00:30:00
    for the position.
  • 00:30:16
    and interviewing and all of that, it could easily add three to four to six months to the process.
  • 00:30:22
    So it's important for us to have the planning meeting hopefully in 2025 to prepare us for 2026 with the possibility of June of 2026 having a new hero director.
  • 00:30:36
    So what I've outlined here is a sketched out timeline.
  • 00:30:40
    This is not confirmed because y'all haven't confirmed it as of yet.
  • 00:30:44
    This is something that we are proposing that could take place, but we can move it depending on what you all want to do and how you want to flow with this.
  • 00:30:54
    So January starting, we've already did the notification of vacancy, of course, as outlined here.
  • 00:31:01
    We're anticipating six to eight weeks.
  • 00:31:03
    Again, ordinance with selection panel takes effect for HERO.
  • 00:31:07
    Around March, the position is publicly posted, and the open recruitment process starts.
  • 00:31:15
    I do want to note that in the past, we've gone back and forth around hiring executive recruiters.
  • 00:31:21
    What I will say, and some sort of like
  • 00:31:24
    unsolicited advice around this one.
  • 00:31:27
    We have to pay the executive recruiters.
  • 00:31:30
    They take about, I forget the percentage, but usually it's around 30 to $40,000.
  • 00:31:36
    That's what their fee is for providing the service.
  • 00:31:40
    So the question is, is this worth the money, worth the investment for this particular position?
  • 00:31:47
    The other thing that I would note is given the environment, the job market, we have a lot of people, which is saturated, we have a lot of people looking for jobs.
  • 00:31:56
    For all of our vacant director level positions, including this one, we anticipate receiving quite a few applications.
  • 00:32:03
    And I would estimate 400 plus.
  • 00:32:07
    and so we need to be prepared for that and that also factors into the timeline as well.
• • Saura Jost
  • 00:32:19
    As I'm thinking about what you're saying and talking about the executive recruiter and they have a fee, and now you're talking about 400 plus applications, I guess in your opinion, do you think that the recruiter services are worth that cost to us given just the volume we might expect and having to sift through those or looking for really top talent for this position?
• • SPEAKER_02
  • 00:32:46
    I'm going to give you the typical lawyer response.
  • 00:32:49
    It depends.
  • 00:32:51
    And we just actually had a conversation with an executive recruiter yesterday, not for this position, but for our other open vacancies.
  • 00:33:00
    And it depends on a lot of things, on what we want them to do.
  • 00:33:04
    Now, I have a team of about six or seven employees in our testing hiring team who could assist with this, but then they've got to also do the other work.
  • 00:33:15
    right and so four to five hundred applications coming in and again that's what we're guessing maybe that's going to happen that's going to be a lot of work and effort for them to help with just the minimum qualifications an executive recruiter could be helpful with that but our process is most executive recruiters are not used to our process right they're not used to like okay we're going to bring all these people in and we got all this ordinance stuff and this back and forth or whatever else
  • 00:33:42
    so we need somebody who can kind of flow with us and recognize like here's what we have to do and here's where we're going to need your help.
  • 00:33:51
    Maybe we want them to focus on the position description which could be helpful to our team.
  • 00:33:57
    I would argue that what would be more helpful is like helping to source those candidates because I anticipate that
  • 00:34:06
    The 400 plus are probably going to be highly qualified people applying for this job because that's probably who's in the market.
  • 00:34:14
    Now there's a lot of, I'm making a lot of assumptions, but I'm also, we're tracking what's happening in the market as well.
  • 00:34:20
    So I don't think it's going to be, in the past with HERO it's been like, gosh, who are we going to find?
  • 00:34:25
    Who's going to be the right person for this job?
  • 00:34:27
    I think actually we're going to have a lot of people and the decision is going to be a little bit more difficult.
  • 00:34:32
    I would love to give you a more firm answer.
  • 00:34:44
    It depends.
  • 00:34:45
    It could be helpful if we have the right firm, the right person that could flow with us, but also we are assigning them to do the things that
  • 00:34:54
    our capacity and the selection committee's capacity is going to be limited.
  • 00:34:58
    Bringing in community people, community folks to come in and say, here's 400 applications, right?
  • 00:35:05
    Or whatever else, that is going to be difficult to do.
  • 00:35:10
    We've also, if I'm not mistaken, we've offered stipends for the community members who are served on this panel.
  • 00:35:19
    So that becomes like a budget piece as well, and then we're,
  • 00:35:23
    If we have that many applications, you're going to be spending more time and needing to spend more time reviewing those.
  • 00:35:30
    And there's some technology that we could use where they could do it on their own and have some secure sites and all of those things that we could talk about getting into those nitty gritty details later.
  • 00:35:39
    But it's going to be a heavier lift.
  • 00:35:42
    So the question is, do you want to have a recruiter who can assist with that and take some of that, at least at the front end, the burden and the brunt of that work?
  • 00:35:51
    to do that.
  • 00:36:10
    I would love to be able to say yes, but this process and I think a few council members were a part of this council when we did the police chief hiring process and that was a huge lift on many different levels and I have tons of
  • 00:36:25
    and we have 40 people as a selection committee to do that.
  • 00:36:37
    And I will say this on record, I don't think you should do 40 people again, but that's not my decision point, that's just a recommendation that I'm making.
  • 00:36:45
    It was very difficult to do that.
  • 00:36:48
    going back to your question it depends if we if we work it create a good strategy I think it could work with a recruiter it also could work without but we just really need to be aligned I think between TER and the council and the services that we're providing to you all to help but also that responsibility of the selection committee.
  • 00:37:12
    Thank you, I appreciate that.
• • Cheniqua Johnson
  • 00:37:14
    Council Member Johnson.
  • 00:37:17
    Thank you.
  • 00:37:19
    Yeah, I appreciate the timeline just to kind of put things into perspective, especially around what we're looking for and even just how long.
  • 00:37:29
    I'm sure this is probably on the more modest lens of what the timing may actually be like.
  • 00:37:38
    and I think I started this with you too during the pre-meeting, but I think it would be helpful, I know, for our office when we're really interested in being a part of the kind of shaping of it, noting that we are entering into mid-October and into the budget season.
  • 00:37:57
    I think that's a part of why the council, the kind of leadership team selected to essentially
  • 00:38:04
    budget cycle would really preclude us from being able to probably do the outreach we would normally around the selection committee, etc.
  • 00:38:15
    I think my follow up and just something that I really would welcome, I hear you on the fact that the staff are a little less involved in the process itself.
  • 00:38:25
    And I think that's, obviously we're talking about a position that was designed by council.
  • 00:38:30
    And so being able to have that influence is really important.
  • 00:38:33
    However, there's a lot of historical context that we're walking into as a new council.
  • 00:38:39
    And I think it would be really helpful, especially as someone who has served in that role, to hear feedback on how you felt like the previous descriptions have either captured or not captured.
  • 00:38:50
    Because I think about 400 of the requirements for the position.
  • 00:38:53
    I think about 400 applicants.
  • 00:38:55
    I think about all the things that we would be looking for.
  • 00:38:56
    And then I also think about just the amount of time that this position has been vacant.
  • 00:39:01
    the average time that someone has filled the position and stayed in the position.
  • 00:39:04
    And I think about making sure that we're not losing something that should be important in transition and just with new faces and new people that don't necessarily have the full back story of this position and this space.
  • 00:39:17
    And so when we're thinking about selecting a new person, I would love to, out of those 400 people, find the person that's going to stay and be sustained over time.
  • 00:39:26
    I think turnover has been quite challenging the position and I think just being able to have, you know, kind of go in and make some adjustments.
  • 00:39:35
    I think it's a perfect time even if that takes a little bit longer.
  • 00:39:38
    So I, you know, I just wanted to echo that and just say like and welcome both your feedback but also just like if there's certain things off of previous job descriptions that were posted for the position that we felt like we didn't capture and previous councils that put up the description
  • 00:39:54
    I'm happy to put on whatever HR hat I have, but I think it would be really helpful to also hear from folks that if there are some things that we should make sure are included.
  • 00:40:03
    And that is where I'd actually look for the HR staff's input from.
• • SPEAKER_02
  • 00:40:09
    Chair Yang and Council Member Johnson, yes, absolutely.
  • 00:40:14
    open the door wide, in our minds wide, about what those qualifications should be, what that position description should look like, and to go back to Councilmember Joe's question around should we hire an executive recruiter or not, that person could help with that as well.
  • 00:40:31
    Because they'll have some sort of ear to the ground in a way that my staff and our team won't have, just because of the work that we do, and I think that that would be helpful to
  • 00:40:41
    to have that person come in and provide some feedback and advice to you all on how to do that.
  • 00:40:47
    As Councilmember Johnson stated, the historical piece, and we won't get too deep into that, but you all may know that I was interim director for this, for HERO for about a year because of the transitions that were taking place.
  • 00:41:01
    And my experience working at the other city, the city of Minneapolis and their civil rights department,
  • 00:41:07
    I have an insight to kind of maybe why the transitions but how difficult the job is and this is sometimes you know folks think oh we just need to hire an attorney and I have a legal background
  • 00:41:22
    No, it's not just attorneys that are going to be good at this role.
  • 00:41:26
    This person is a bureaucrat, this person is an administrator, and they are a leader of people.
  • 00:41:31
    And oftentimes, and I'm going to make a derogatory comment about my people, my attorney friends, but we're not oftentimes good managers.
  • 00:41:38
    And City Attorney Lindsay Olson has heard me say this, we're oftentimes not good managers.
  • 00:41:44
    And so we can't just be looking for attorneys on this.
  • 00:41:47
    We need folks who are going to be leaders, who have a broad
  • 00:41:51
    is not extensive experience around leader and management, but core experience to help drive the work.
  • 00:41:58
    because this person is going to be a partner to the council, of course it's going to be a person, a partner to the mayor's office, and the divisions within HERO are so different.
  • 00:42:09
    You have complaints, folks, you have the labor piece.
  • 00:42:12
    You have the PCR, you have the committees and the boards and commissions that are assigned to that work.
  • 00:42:19
    You have contract compliance, you have procurement.
  • 00:42:21
    Those are drastically different divisions and scopes of work.
  • 00:42:26
    So you're not going to find somebody, even with me, I didn't have procurement in my background.
  • 00:42:33
    and so I didn't even know what procurement was doing until I got into that role like oh this is a big deal so you're not going to find the person that's like done all of the things right and so we're not looking for a unicorn anymore but what the council what would be helpful with the council in partnership with us as well as if we decide to move forward with an executive recruiter is figuring out spending that time like what are we actually looking for
  • 00:42:58
    what's going to be helpful and like that longevity that Councilmember Johnson is talking about what's who do we need that's going to and what are we looking for in a person that's going to stay here for a while and bring stability to that department and I will note that you know even though the position has been vacant for a while the Andrea Ledger
  • 00:43:19
    and for a stint of time, Beth Commerce have been holding it out.
  • 00:43:25
    They've been able to bring that stability into the team, which was, from my understanding, welcome.
  • 00:43:33
    But now it's time to fill the role and find someone who's going to continue that effort and that stability in that department.
  • 00:43:43
    Council Member Johnson.
• • Cheniqua Johnson
  • 00:43:43
    Yeah, I just had a follow-up slash I don't know if it's a question or it's a comment regarding the financing and budgeting for the position for next year.
  • 00:43:51
    It's recommended again at this full amount, correct?
  • 00:43:55
    And I think the full amount for the position is, if I remember correctly, somewhere in the mid $200,000.
• • SPEAKER_04
  • 00:44:03
    Chair Yang, Council Member Johnson, I will have to get back to you on what the amount is.
  • 00:44:07
    I don't have that off the top of my head, but it is budgeted.
• • Cheniqua Johnson
  • 00:44:10
    Okay, I assume that we wouldn't be using the full amount for this position if it's filled in June at the earliest
  • 00:44:17
    I guess my question is more of like in that role and in that budget line item would there be anything that we would have to do as far as a council action or something that would allow us to be able to utilize that for any sort of recruitment dollars for any sort of filling up a position knowing that the money will be there but not being expended as an actual line up for position because the position is vacant.
• • SPEAKER_04
  • 00:44:42
    Chair Yang, Councilmember Johnson, the best way to do that would be through an administrative order to move that money out of like the salary line item and into a services line item.
• • Nelsie Yang
  • 00:44:55
    Okay, thank you.
  • 00:44:58
    Councilmember Coleman.
• • SPEAKER_01
  • 00:44:59
    Thank you Chair Yang, thank you Director.
  • 00:45:02
    First of all I just want to say that this presentation is incredibly helpful and as we've sat through our other budget presentations and thinking about how much of the work of the city is just the people who work for the city, really having this chance to dive into who we are hiring and how we are hiring and retaining and supporting and supporting their leadership development has been incredibly helpful for me.
  • 00:45:22
    I'm really excited about all this work.
  • 00:45:24
    Just on that recruitment piece and Councilmember Johnson started to get here,
  • 00:45:29
    both for the hero director in terms of this question about if we'll bring in outside support to help with recruitment, but also for other director-level talent searches, which I anticipate we will have some of in the 2026 budget year.
  • 00:45:43
    Is there money allocated for that currently for
  • 00:45:49
    of the City Council.
• • SPEAKER_02
  • 00:46:01
    Chair Yang, Councilmember Coleman, great question.
  • 00:46:05
    So it's different.
  • 00:46:08
    So for the hero position, it's outlined by ordinance, there's a process that we have to follow.
  • 00:46:13
    For the other 10 to 12 positions, director level positions, the mayor's office in coordination with TDR handles those hiring processes.
  • 00:46:24
    you all may remember and have been a part of the mayor's goal has been for all of his director level positions to do a what's called a community-based hiring process which is some version of what we're doing with HERO anyway of having community members who are residents of St Paul or connected to St Paul a part of the hiring committee or selection committee for our department directors so we're still doing that
  • 00:46:47
    or some version of it.
  • 00:46:49
    As you all may remember, when Mayor Carter started, it was this huge lift where it was like 300 people or so involved in that process.
  • 00:46:56
    We're not doing that.
  • 00:46:57
    Again, it's more controlled and a little bit smaller footprint.
  • 00:47:03
    But we do some version of that for each of those directors and we will be doing some version of that process for those current vacancies.
  • 00:47:11
    what I will say is as I mentioned before we were talking to an executive recruiter to think about as well should we have one because we're also anticipating 400 plus applicants applying for those jobs too and so the same things that I said to you about for the hero position which could be a contributing factor as to why we hire an executive recruiter I would say the same thing for those open positions so to your question about like should we be allocating dollars
  • 00:47:40
    and I'm not going to get too deep into Madeline's face.
  • 00:47:43
    I know enough to be dangerous, but what I do understand is that each department pays for that executive recruiter.
  • 00:47:51
    So for the HERO budget, as Council Member Johnson was talking about, the money for that executive recruiter will come from HERO's budget.
  • 00:48:00
    The same for PED, the same for OFS.
  • 00:48:03
    So I don't, again, don't know specifically, but I don't anticipate needing a budget amendment necessarily, or an allocation necessarily out of that.
  • 00:48:15
    But as Madeline has stated, we may need to amend the budget to move those dollars from salary savings over to the professional services or whatever else, budget line item, to pay for the executive recruiter.
  • 00:48:28
    Did I get it right, Madam Chair?
  • 00:48:29
    Yes.
  • 00:48:30
    She didn't make them look at me, so I'm good.
• • 00:48:35
    Thank you.
• • SPEAKER_04
  • 00:48:35
    All right.
  • 00:48:35
    Thanks, Director.
• • SPEAKER_01
  • 00:48:36
    Sure, Yang.
  • 00:48:36
    Could I just?
• • SPEAKER_04
  • 00:48:37
    Go ahead.
  • 00:48:38
    To get back to Council Member Johnson's question, the budget for the HERO Director in 2026 is $136,000 for salary, $44,000 for benefits, for a total of just under $181,000.
• • Nelsie Yang
  • 00:48:56
    Thank you.
  • 00:48:57
    I will run through my notes here on slide four where you talked about the payroll employees and having to send out mail for all those pay stubs.
  • 00:49:08
    I just want to say this really exemplifies that our staff are so skilled, so top notch, and only to be flexible.
  • 00:49:16
    And so I just really commend you and all of our talent and equity resources staff.
  • 00:49:21
    The next thing is I just want to go to line
  • 00:49:25
    slide nine, the change from 2025 to 2026 is about $730,000.
  • 00:49:32
    I know I can see where about $328,000 comes from, from your slide on 2026 proposed changes, but I'm not sure where about 400,000 is coming from.
  • 00:49:48
    Would you be able to go through that a bit?
• • SPEAKER_02
  • 00:49:52
    I don't...
  • 00:49:55
    I may need to seek counsel on that one.
  • 00:49:57
    Is it possible for us to come back to you on that piece?
  • 00:50:01
    So you're asking for...
• • Nelsie Yang
  • 00:50:02
    I just want a breakdown of the change from 2025 to 2026.
  • 00:50:07
    So it's about $730,000.
  • 00:50:11
    That would be the budget difference.
  • 00:50:15
    I don't know what the full breakdown is.
• • SPEAKER_02
  • 00:50:17
    And the central service fund, Madeline, is that, can we speak to that?
• • SPEAKER_04
  • 00:50:22
    Yeah, Chair Yang, so the $327,000 of that is a growth in the general fund that I believe there was a slide detailing all of those changes.
  • 00:50:33
    And then the $400,000 in growth in the central service fund, the two things that are there are our property insurance and our work comp fund.
  • 00:50:41
    So all departments pay into those funds.
  • 00:50:45
    and that is what's budgeted there.
  • 00:50:47
    So higher expected costs for work comp and property insurance that's charged out to departments.
• • Nelsie Yang
  • 00:50:55
    Okay, great.
  • 00:50:56
    Thanks for explaining that.
  • 00:50:59
    And then, I do have a few notes on the questions about the hero director, the selection process too, but I won't go through that just for the sake of time.
  • 00:51:10
    I will be sure to follow up with you directly about that.
  • 00:51:13
    The really quick thing I want to say is that I do think that the council here should revisit that ordinance and determine if we want to continue having a selection committee for it.
  • 00:51:25
    I say that because I think, and
  • 00:51:28
    during my five years on the council here, I don't recall what positions have had any sort of transitions, whether it's all directors or some.
  • 00:51:37
    But I do remember there being some sort of selection committees that happened.
  • 00:51:41
    I just think that, especially for positions that are really high profile, where sometimes we see a lot of community tensions and questions arise around it, like a police chief, for example.
  • 00:51:51
    It makes sense for us to have a really intensive process around that, but
  • 00:51:57
    about I would say even my own personal thoughts too for the hero director position is that it's not a matter of, hey, can we be a part of this?
  • 00:52:05
    But it's can we get this position filled ASAP so that we can really be supporting workers in our city and not only in the city of St Paul, but in our city overall.
  • 00:52:15
    That would be where I feel the urgency is.
  • 00:52:17
    So I'd be really interested in revisiting that.
  • 00:52:20
    Chair, my last question is just on slide 11.
  • 00:52:23
    It's about the full time employee summary.
  • 00:52:27
    I know that, I'm really grateful to you all for being really intentional and just.
  • 00:52:32
    being critical thinkers about where we can make reductions and where does it make sense to do that.
  • 00:52:39
    I mean, that's something that I am really supportive of.
  • 00:52:42
    I've always talked about how important it is for us to have a modest increase in our levy rather than having skyrocketing increases and really keeping it at a minimum.
  • 00:52:52
    And so I'm wondering, I know that the number from 2025 to 2026 for full-time staff, it's going to be the same, but can you talk a bit about what
  • 00:53:02
    what full capacity for the department actually looks like.
  • 00:53:06
    That way we just have an idea of what that is.
• • SPEAKER_02
  • 00:53:11
    Chair Yang, great question.
  • 00:53:13
    I think that we could always use more employees.
  • 00:53:16
    Where I would ask for additional staff would be always in our payroll department.
  • 00:53:26
    that's one where it's we realize and with the cyber attack is like oh we need we need some additional support and with payroll it's not just like the processing payroll it is auditing because we get audited payroll has very unforgiving timelines so where some of the aspects of my other
  • 00:53:44
    and the City Council.
  • 00:54:01
    I would say, you know, with our hiring team and our class and comp team, it's depending on the market, right?
  • 00:54:10
    We're seeing, I've been talking about these 400 plus applications, we're getting those now.
  • 00:54:15
    And that's not even for higher level positions, that is for our office assistant.
  • 00:54:20
    You all have made, you know, some of the positions that you all, the councils had open.
  • 00:54:24
    we had a whole bunch of applications coming in and that takes the work of the consulting services team to be able to do that, process those in a timely manner and communicate out who made the list and who didn't.
  • 00:54:39
    So those two teams I will always ask for additional resources there.
  • 00:54:45
    I think that one of the kind of our on our dream list of FTEs and so this is a probably a third position that I would ask for is with our labor relations team we have we have our negotiation we have our deputy director and his two individuals who are helping with grievances as well as our negotiation strategies and negotiation work it would be helpful to have a liaison between the department and TER
  • 00:55:15
    to help deal with that day-to-day work around grievances and ensuring that we have our departments know that, hey, you shouldn't do this or you should do that.
  • 00:55:26
    Helping, assisting with some process improvement space, that's another position that I would ask for.
  • 00:55:32
    And then the last one.
  • 00:55:34
    would be around our learning training and development.
  • 00:55:37
    And I would ask for an additional staffing resource as well as resources to expand our training.
  • 00:55:44
    As we don't want to be an organization that's stagnant, meaning that we've done some great work around professional development with the team of three that we have in the learning and development team.
  • 00:55:59
    But people are asking for more.
  • 00:56:01
    We need a learning management system.
  • 00:56:03
    to track the trainings.
  • 00:56:05
    We want to see how people are growing.
  • 00:56:07
    If folks want to move from council to TER, what's the pathway there and what are the skills that you need to be able to do that?
  • 00:56:14
    Having a lot of organizations, and we're talking more on the private sector side, if you're ready to advance, what is the pathway to do that?
  • 00:56:24
    And actually it happens versus we just provide a training, good luck.
  • 00:56:28
    There's a pathway that gets you to that next level and there's a guaranteed job or position.
  • 00:56:33
    that's going to take resources, that's going to take training, and we need to have that learning management system to be able to do that.
  • 00:56:41
    And then the last position I would ask for, a resource that I would ask for would be around our administration work.
  • 00:56:47
    Right now we have some staff working in a temporary space who's serving as our office manager and filling in some gaps.
  • 00:56:58
    But as TER's work expands and we have work in which we're touching all of our departments, that administrative support is going to be key to making sure that we function well as a team.
  • 00:57:09
    And so being that nucleus to the nucleus in our organization.
  • 00:57:13
    Now I want to be clear, I'm not asking for those positions now.
  • 00:57:16
    You asked the question around what would be to get us to full capacity.
  • 00:57:21
    I think that we want to be partners with the mayor's office and with the council and making sure that we understand the constraints that we're in right now.
  • 00:57:30
    And so we understand that we need to be contributors to reaching those goals of filling that gap and understanding just like the fate of the world, the state of the world and just everybody's budget is tight.
  • 00:57:42
    and starting from the federal level what's happening and how that's impacting us.
  • 00:57:46
    So in no way am I lobbying for that in this space because I understand the realities of our situation.
  • 00:57:52
    But if I'm dreaming, that's my dream.
  • 00:57:55
    And hopefully with our strategic plan and we get into a better place with our budget,
  • 00:58:01
    we can get there with those additional five to six staff and those additional resources.
  • 00:58:05
    That is part of our strategic plan.
  • 00:58:07
    But for this budget, for 2026, we want to make sure that we're in alignment with the mayor's office and that we are contributing members to achieving those budget gaps.
• • Nelsie Yang
  • 00:58:18
    Thank you for those insights, Director Newborn.
  • 00:58:20
    Well, thank you for your presentation.
  • 00:58:22
    Oh, Council Member Bui.
  • 00:58:24
    We'll take questions and comments from you last and then we'll transition to the county.
• • Anika Bowie
  • 00:58:28
    I have a comment.
  • 00:58:30
    Just due to time, I'm just going to save my questions, particularly for later with Director Newberman.
  • 00:58:36
    Thank you so much for the overview and I really appreciate the level of detail you went also about the process too.
  • 00:58:42
    Sometimes when we talk about budgets, we don't talk about actually the implementation and the design plan for a more sustainable
  • 00:58:51
    leadership and organizations.
  • 00:58:54
    So I really do appreciate you using the time to talk about the desire to expand training.
  • 00:59:00
    We see that across every single department.
  • 00:59:03
    I think even in our own departments, especially in fields where they're constantly evolving and they're shifting.
  • 00:59:11
    And technology also is changing at a fast pace.
  • 00:59:17
    So I appreciate that.
  • 00:59:19
    As a Ward 1 Councilmember gives some context, particularly around the background on the hiring decision and the process with the Human Rights Director, the Hero Director.
  • 00:59:33
    From my experience especially, I saw that this ordinance came out of the spirit of a process of keeping Council accountable, particularly to community stakeholders.
  • 00:59:47
    who uplifted and really built the confidence of this position to ensure they're protecting the rights of individuals, particularly on some of the stakeholders that I recall
  • 01:00:02
    that was at the table really pushing for council to have this position was the St. Paul, excuse me, the St. Paul, Minneapolis, St. Paul, NAACP, ACLU.
  • 01:00:15
    I know the African American Leadership Council was really pivotal, particularly around accountability and whoever is higher in that position.
  • 01:00:25
    How can the residents, who do the residents hold accountable
  • 01:00:31
    to that process.
  • 01:00:33
    So that's just giving some context.
  • 01:00:34
    I do think it is worth exploring and revisiting, but I just want to just like say on record that I will be ensuring that that accountability to community is still strong and present.
  • 01:00:48
    Now how we go about that could be different things, but it's really important that we ensure and protect the collective
  • 01:00:56
    you know action around who we hire and also revisiting the scope of that work.
  • 01:01:06
    A hero director from five years ago is very different to the needs and demands that our city is faced with so I also want to just say I encourage us to look at
  • 01:01:21
    For the sake of time, we're going to transition over to Ramsey County.
• • Nelsie Yang
  • 01:01:36
    Thank you, Director Newborn for your presentation today.
• • SPEAKER_02
  • 01:01:38
    Of course, thank you all.
  • 01:01:39
    Have a good day.
• • Nelsie Yang
  • 01:01:42
    All right, so I'd like to bring up Ramsey County Assessor Pat Chapman and Ramsey County Auditor Tracy West.
  • 01:01:53
    Thank you both for being here with us today.
  • 01:01:56
    The floor is yours.
• • SPEAKER_00
  • 01:02:20
    Good morning, Chair Yang, Council members, distinguished members in the audience, residents watching at home on TV.
  • 01:02:27
    My name is Director Pat Chapman and I'm the Ramsey County Assessor.
  • 01:02:30
    Today with me is Tracy West, Director and the County Auditor.
  • 01:02:37
    We're going to go over some trends that we saw for 2022 2025 values which is taxes payable 2026.
  • 01:02:49
    a high-level agenda.
  • 01:02:50
    We'll talk about tax capacity, estimated market value, a little bit on fiscal disparity, change in estimated taxes, tax relief programs, and key dates for residents and for council members.
  • 01:03:05
    So here's the Ramsey County tax capacity.
  • 01:03:08
    As you can see, we are at an all-time high of about $880 million in tax capacity.
  • 01:03:18
    and tax capacity is the county's ability to generate tax.
  • 01:03:24
    Here's some of the tax capacity shifts countywide as you can see agriculture doesn't make up a ton of our county as you may well have guessed and so little impacts on there are big changes so that twenty three percent number is not a very big change even though it's big to the agriculture market.
  • 01:03:42
    department and commercial markets have decreased slightly and industrial and residential markets have increased slightly and so any tax shifting burdens would shift on to the industrial residential
  • 01:03:59
    of the department and commercial properties, but even with the tax capacity, those shifts will be smaller than may be expected because commercial has a two to one rate on tax capacity.
  • 01:04:15
    So for every $2 a commercial, it' s $1 of residential so when the shifts happen there'
• • Nelsie Yang
  • 01:04:25
    Thank you.
  • 01:04:25
    I want to pause you for a bit and say welcome to our special guests from St. Paul Public Schools.
• • SPEAKER_01
  • 01:04:32
    Thank you for joining us today.
• • Nelsie Yang
  • 01:04:34
    And Cynthia, thank you for reaching out and scheduling to be here at our committee.
• • SPEAKER_00
  • 01:04:39
    All right, you can resume.
  • 01:04:43
    Thank you.
  • 01:04:44
    You bet.
  • 01:04:47
    So here's our Ramsey County Market Value and Tax Capacity graphic that we show you.
  • 01:04:53
    On the left there we see estimated market value for 2025 which is the base for the tax for 2026.
  • 01:05:01
    You can see that residential makes up about 60% on both sides of the equation.
  • 01:05:07
    you can see that commercial is about 9% of the estimated market value but makes up 17% of the tax capacity and that is because of the classification.
  • 01:05:18
    Commercial has a higher classification so even though they're only 9% of the value they're responsible for 17% of the tax burden.
  • 01:05:26
    The one big one in the middle there is the exempt.
  • 01:05:29
    We have a lot of exempt property in our county as St. Paul has a really high
  • 01:05:34
    of the city of St. Paul.
  • 01:05:35
    We see the amount of that as well 14% and you see exempt properties do not create tax capacity because they are exempt.
  • 01:05:41
    Let' s talk about st. Paul.
  • 01:05:44
    Here is some of the tax capacity charts we talked about for the whole county this is what st. Paul' s looking again you can see a not much there but a
  • 01:05:58
    Apartments down about five percent commercial down about four percent, and then you see industrial up about two residential up about five So the total change is a positive 1.63 so they're going to be minor shifts inside of your city from apartment and commercial to industrial and residential properties
  • 01:06:20
    here's the market value and tax capacity chart for the City of St Paul.
  • 01:06:24
    You can see that residential makes up about 55% and tax capacity is about 59% of the total and you can see there to commercial made up 8% of the estimated market value but carries 16% of the tax capacity burden.
  • 01:06:42
    Again that's due to the classification.
  • 01:06:46
    and again you can see the exempt piece, 18% exempt in the estimated market value but obviously exempt carries no tax capacity.
  • 01:07:00
    So I' m going to transfer it over to tracy and we will talk a little bit about fiscal disparity.
• • SPEAKER_08
  • 01:07:08
    Thank you assessor chatman my name is
  • 01:07:14
    Assessor Chapman just reviewed market values and tax capacity are one of the factors that impact taxes so so is fiscal disparities so I'll talk briefly about the fiscal disparity program.
  • 01:07:29
    So fiscal disparities is a tax-based sharing program designed to reduce large differences in commercial industrial tax capacity between communities.
  • 01:07:40
    It mainly affects how property tax revenue is distributed among cities and counties in the Twin Cities metro area.
  • 01:07:49
    The fiscal disparity program aims to share the benefit of regional economic growth, reduce inequalities between commercial rich and commercial poor tax-based communities, and encourage communities to cooperate regionally rather than compete
  • 01:08:08
    for development solely to boost their own tax base.
  • 01:08:13
    Each year, 40% of growth in commercial and industrial property value within the region is placed in a shared pool.
  • 01:08:20
    This is called the area-wide tax base.
  • 01:08:24
    This pool is then distributed among all taxing jurisdictions in the region.
  • 01:08:29
    The shared pool is distributed based on population and market value per capita.
  • 01:08:36
    So communities with lower market value per person receive more of the pool.
  • 01:08:41
    Those with higher market value per person contribute more.
  • 01:08:47
    Donor communities contribute more to the shared pool than they receive.
  • 01:08:54
    So their local commercial tax capacity is reduced.
  • 01:08:58
    Where recipient communities receive more from the pool, their local commercial tax capacity increases.
  • 01:09:06
    So fiscal disparity changes where tax dollars go, not how much an individual property owner pays overall.
  • 01:09:15
    However, it can affect local tax rates.
  • 01:09:18
    So donor cities may have slightly higher local tax rate because part of their base is shared.
  • 01:09:24
    Recipient cities may have lower local tax rates due to increased shared base.
  • 01:09:33
    So this is the tax capacity contribution by county.
  • 01:09:37
    So overall, the pool is at a slight increase, adding about $1 million over 2025.
  • 01:09:45
    So you can see Ramsey County and Hennepin County are the only counties who are contributing less than they did last year.
  • 01:09:52
    This is due to the decline in commercial properties, specifically in the downtown areas.
  • 01:10:01
    Next is the distribution dollars received by the County, City of St Paul, and St Paul School District.
  • 01:10:09
    So the slide before, we are looking at the tax capacities, so this is levy dollars received from this program.
  • 01:10:17
    So all three jurisdictions are receiving more than they did last year.
  • 01:10:21
    City of St Paul will receive $44.3 million, which is up from last year by 9.3%.
  • 01:10:33
    All right, so we know market value and fiscal disparities are impacting property taxes.
  • 01:10:40
    Also, the levies proposed by each of the jurisdictions impact property taxes.
  • 01:10:46
    So let's look at how these factors are impacting property taxes.
  • 01:10:51
    So this is the change in tax on a median value residential property by St. Paul Planning District.
  • 01:10:59
    So this example does not include the school referendum.
  • 01:11:02
    It is sorted by highest to lowest percent change.
  • 01:11:07
    So that first line in the Thomasdale area, taxes are projected to increase by $267 or 8.5% over last year.
  • 01:11:18
    And the very last row is the downtown area.
  • 01:11:22
    They'll see the lowest increase, which is $8 increase or 0.3% over last year.
  • 01:11:31
    Now this is the same chart but the only difference is we're including that school referendum assuming it does pass.
  • 01:11:41
    So in the Thomasdale area taxes are projected to increase $513 or 16.3% over last year and if you look at the very bottom row
  • 01:11:55
    This referendum would increase the overall taxes by $201 in the downtown area or about 8% over last year.
  • 01:12:09
    So there are many factors that impact taxes as we've
  • 01:12:13
    briefly discuss fiscal disparity levy changes in market value.
  • 01:12:18
    And then we also have what we call tax shifts.
  • 01:12:21
    So an example of tax shifts are when we see changes in market value between the classifications.
  • 01:12:28
    So overall, we're seeing a decline in the market value of commercial property and increases in residential.
  • 01:12:36
    So when this happens, some of that tax burden will shift.
  • 01:12:40
    Chair, Chair, Chair, Chair,
  • 01:12:48
    these factors affecting 26 taxes.
  • 01:12:51
    Again, it's on a St. Paul median value property and this example excludes the school referendum.
  • 01:12:59
    So if you look to the column all the way- I'm going to pause you for a bit just for a question from Council Member Boone.
• • Anika Bowie
  • 01:13:03
    Thank you so much, Chair Yang.
  • 01:13:05
    I want to go back to slide 10.
  • 01:13:09
    I'm trying to understand and I remember we were talking about this last year.
  • 01:13:14
    What is the, if you can explain the different in percentages because particularly we see Thomasdale has the highest percentage at 6.4% change.
  • 01:13:28
    For the people who are seeing these percentages and seeing these levies, how are we coming up with these percentages numbers because one would probably think that
  • 01:13:39
    It's also very complicated and layered, but there are many factors that impact taxes.
• • SPEAKER_08
  • 01:14:08
    like for example City of St Paul's levy is increasing by I think it's 5.3% so that's not the only factor that impacts taxes so Ramsey County also is increasing their levy and they 9.7 I guess I'm trying to get to this is neighborhood specific so how are we so why is Thomas Dale
• • Anika Bowie
  • 01:14:35
    having a change at 6.4% while downtown has negative 0.3%.
• • SPEAKER_08
  • 01:14:40
    Yes, so this it's the valuation of the home so each home is going to have a different valuation so in the Thomasdale area the median value home is for 2026 taxes payable $231,100 last year it was $217,300
  • 01:15:03
    So the value of the home is increasing by 6.4%, but then the tax change year over year is increasing by 8.5%.
• • Anika Bowie
  • 01:15:13
    So you're saying in other neighborhoods, say, for example, Union Park, there is a slight increase in value, therefore there's a slight increase in the percentage.
• • SPEAKER_08
  • 01:15:27
    Correct.
  • 01:15:29
    Sometimes there's a correlation with the market value, but there's also other factors that will drive the taxes.
  • 01:15:36
    So it's not solely related to market value, but that is one of the factors.
• • Anika Bowie
  • 01:15:40
    Thank you.
  • 01:15:41
    And one last point.
  • 01:15:43
    So Ramsey County is the entity that regulates or I guess gives the or adjusts the market value for that home, right?
  • 01:15:56
    Correct.
  • 01:15:57
    OK.
  • 01:15:58
    Thank you.
• • Saura Jost
  • 01:15:59
    I was just going to make a comment.
  • 01:16:01
    I appreciate your question and the clarification that
  • 01:16:05
    And these are median values, which means that half of the homes have a value above the number, half have one below, not the average.
  • 01:16:13
    So it would be also interesting to see, I know this is from this year and comparing to last year, but even in the last decade, how have some of the trends been that have shown the increases in median value across the neighborhoods over time?
• • SPEAKER_08
  • 01:16:32
    Chair, council members.
  • 01:16:34
    Yes, we can pull that information and I can provide that for you.
  • 01:16:38
    Thank you.
  • 01:16:38
    Yes.
  • 01:16:46
    All right.
  • 01:16:47
    So we're going to break down some of these factors so we can understand overall, you know, we see
  • 01:16:54
    In this example, it's a $280 increase, so that column all the way to the right.
  • 01:16:59
    So that's what residents will see on their TNT, their proposed tax statement.
  • 01:17:06
    And the way we break it down on the proposed tax statement is by the taxing jurisdiction.
  • 01:17:13
    So in this example, $151 is related to the county.
  • 01:17:18
    $107 is related to the city.
  • 01:17:23
    about $6 is related other special taxing districts which are watersheds and Met Council are two examples.
  • 01:17:35
    So we know there's a lot behind the scene that goes on with fiscal disparities, tax shifts, some other homestead exclusions and examples so let's break that $280 change down a little further
  • 01:17:50
    So we can see how all these factors are impacting taxes.
  • 01:17:54
    So if we go to that middle column, you'll see the $4,158.
  • 01:17:58
    So that is the taxes paid in 2025 on a median value home in the city of St. Paul.
  • 01:18:07
    So that value is $275,000.
  • 01:18:11
    So all these factors are going to either add to the taxes from last year or subtract from it
  • 01:18:17
    to get to our new 2026 total.
  • 01:18:21
    So that first number is a reduction of $88, and that's related to fiscal disparities.
  • 01:18:30
    And then we have a change in the homestead exclusion benefit.
  • 01:18:34
    So that's adding $18 to the property taxes.
  • 01:18:38
    So the homestead exclusion benefit is based on the value of the home.
  • 01:18:43
    So since this home is increasing in value,
  • 01:18:47
    they're losing a little bit of that benefit having to pay $18 more in taxes.
  • 01:18:53
    And then there's other shifts include $121 so that examples of that would be property tax shifts from other classifications such as commercial into residential and also the increase in the value of the home.
  • 01:19:13
    and then we move on to the Ramsey County increase.
  • 01:19:16
    $133 is strictly related to the increase in the county levy and then the $3 is due to the increase in the regional rail levy.
  • 01:19:27
    is $90 is the city levy and then $3 is the special taxing districts.
  • 01:19:34
    So that $229 plus the $51 equals that $280.
  • 01:19:40
    So that's the breakdown of that change in tax year over year.
• • Saura Jost
  • 01:19:46
    Thank you, Chair.
  • 01:19:47
    I'm looking at this slide and also the next one kind of at the same time, but the question I had for you, and I don't know if you know the answer to this, but with the Minnesota property tax refund, I know there's like a special property tax refund if your taxes increase by a certain amount year over year.
  • 01:20:06
    Do you know, like off the top of your head, when we're looking at the comparison of the tax changes with or without the referendum, will some of the neighborhoods with their median
  • 01:20:16
    or some of the neighborhoods see that they are potentially eligible for that special refund with or without the referendum.
  • 01:20:24
    I don't remember off the top of my head what it is.
  • 01:20:26
    I feel like it's like 10% or something.
  • 01:20:27
    I don't remember.
  • 01:20:28
    But do you know?
• • SPEAKER_08
  • 01:20:30
    Chair commissioners, is it 10% or 12%?
  • 01:20:33
    It's 12%.
  • 01:20:34
    So yes, I do have a slide on all of our different programs to help relieve property taxes.
  • 01:20:43
    and then also in the property tax statement that residents receive, there's information on all those programs as well.
  • 01:20:54
    All right, so this is the same slide but we are including the school referendum.
  • 01:21:00
    So again, the column all the way to the right is what
  • 01:21:04
    property taxpayer will see.
  • 01:21:06
    So that's an increase of $587 broken out by the different taxing jurisdictions.
  • 01:21:14
    And then if we break that change down a step further, you can see the fiscal disparity is going to stay the same at a reduction of $88.
  • 01:21:22
    Homestead inclusion benefit will be an increase of 18 that stayed the same.
  • 01:21:29
    tax shifts stay the same at $121.
  • 01:21:31
    And then when we look at the different levies, you can see that the school district levy is increasing that overall tax bill by $307.
  • 01:21:43
    So bringing us to that change of $587 or 14% year over year change.
  • 01:21:56
    All right, so property taxes are often considered regressive because lower income households pay a higher share of their income in property taxes than higher income households do.
  • 01:22:11
    In this example, three households live in homes similar value.
  • 01:22:16
    They each pay $2,000 in property taxes, but one earns much less income than others.
  • 01:22:24
    Property tax is based on the value of property, not how much the owner earns.
  • 01:22:31
    So if all three homes are taxed at $2,000 per year, but one household earns $10,000 and the other earns $100,000, that first home that pays $10,000 pays 20% of their income in property taxes, where the last example
  • 01:22:53
    is only paying 2% of their income to property taxes.
  • 01:22:58
    So that's regressive in effect.
  • 01:23:02
    Landlords also include property taxes and the rent they charge.
  • 01:23:06
    Because lower income households are more likely to rent, they still bear part of the property tax burden, but with less ability to absorb it compared to wealthier homeowners.
  • 01:23:18
    Property taxes don't automatically decrease when someone loses a job or retires.
  • 01:23:24
    That means people on fixed or lower incomes can feel disproportionate strain, even if their property value doesn't change.
  • 01:23:35
    So Minnesota has programs to make property taxes less regressive, such as the property tax refund, homestead market value exclusion, and senior deferral programs.
  • 01:23:48
    These don't eliminate regressivity, but it helps soften it.
  • 01:23:52
    Information on these programs can be found on the Ramsey County website or the state website which is listed below on this slide.
  • 01:24:03
    And some key dates.
  • 01:24:05
    So jurisdictions certified max levies to the county auditor on September 30th.
  • 01:24:12
    We are in the process now of calculating the proposed tax statements and those will be sent between November 11th
  • 01:24:20
    and November 24th.
  • 01:24:22
    So these dates are determined by statute.
  • 01:24:25
    I believe City of St Paul Truth in Taxation meeting is being held on November 25th.
  • 01:24:33
    So just something to note, there could be situations where residents may receive their statements a day or two in advance of the meeting.
  • 01:24:43
    We always aim for the earliest date to get them out, but
  • 01:24:47
    Once we send them off to the post office, it's out of our control a little bit.
  • 01:24:54
    Ramsey County will hold the Truth in Taxation meeting for the county on December 11th.
  • 01:25:00
    The meeting actually starts at 6 o'clock but the public hearing portion will begin after a brief presentation at 6.30.
  • 01:25:11
    and then the County Board will approve the final 2026 levy on December 16th.
  • 01:25:19
    So that concludes my presentation.
  • 01:25:21
    I'll stand for additional questions at this time.
• • Cheniqua Johnson
  • 01:25:27
    Thank you and thank you both for being here today.
  • 01:25:30
    I really appreciate that we were able to fit this into the budget conversation because I think it is really important.
  • 01:25:37
    I'm looking at some of these numbers and honestly it's one of the most talked about things that I definitely heard at the budget event that we did as council but also in my individual board budgets.
  • 01:25:49
    I appreciate the further explanation on slides 11 and 12.
  • 01:25:53
    for initial feedback slash probably I think for additional context I can see how someone who's looking at this and just wondering like will be like well I live in Paine Phelan or I live on the north end and I'm or Thomas and Dale and so I'm paying the most in taxes potentially being like a piece of
  • 01:26:10
    of the City Council.
  • 01:26:34
    the whole graph itself, I could make inferences that aren't necessarily 100% accurate.
  • 01:26:41
    So that would be just an initial piece of it.
  • 01:26:43
    I don't think this slide tells the full story in it.
  • 01:26:48
    So I do appreciate the breakdown for just actually how it works and for folks to see the increases for the median value home.
  • 01:26:59
    Separately, I think if I remember correctly from last year's presentation, there was a slide or some mentions of just how much money folks are leaving on the table for state reimbursements.
  • 01:27:10
    And I was wondering as a follow up to that, has the county seen a decrease in county residents?
  • 01:27:17
    having that same experience, has there been any sort of efforts on the county side around how to ensure that if there is opportunities for residents, especially here in St. Paul, to receive some sort of, to receive their full reimbursements to their homes at their property, to be able to get some sort of relief at the end of the year, that they're able to take advantage of that.
  • 01:27:39
    And I remember that number last year being a little bit more higher than I had recalled initially.
  • 01:27:44
    And I'm just wondering if you've seen improvement in that.
• • SPEAKER_08
  • 01:27:46
    Good chair, council members.
  • 01:27:49
    Yeah, that's a great point.
  • 01:27:50
    The money left on the table that we've talked about in past years is related to the state program.
  • 01:27:58
    So that was about 25 million that was left on the table within Ramsey County, so that would include St Paul residents.
  • 01:28:07
    What we do is every opportunity we get, we try to
  • 01:28:12
    Chair, Council Member Johnson
• • SPEAKER_00
  • 01:28:28
    the homestead piece has been they just changed it in the legislature a couple years ago and moved the bracket up so that gave a lot more benefit to areas of St. Paul that really needed it so the lower valued areas of St. Paul saw an increase
  • 01:28:48
    in the amount of exclusion that was there.
  • 01:28:53
    When that chart shows an $18 I think it was the homestead market value exclusion reduction if we compared that to three years ago it would actually be less than what they had
  • 01:29:04
    then because of the change up.
  • 01:29:07
    So that's a very confusing way to say that the homestead market value exclusion is a very valuable thing to the City of St. Paul, especially in areas where values are a little lower.
  • 01:29:16
    And so even though it's a diminishing return as your property grows, since they moved the bracket up, more people in St. Paul are benefiting from it in lower valued communities.
• • Cheniqua Johnson
  • 01:29:30
    And as a follow up to that, just maybe not necessarily to the homestead properties piece, but to the 25 million through state programming.
  • 01:29:38
    Can we get a follow up just again on the programs and information, I think just as it relates to that too.
  • 01:29:45
    Once again, you also share it with constituents and people that are coming to us too that may or may not know about it.
  • 01:29:50
    Honestly, I probably will have to review some of it to just see if I'm one of the folks.
  • 01:29:54
    committee.
  • 01:29:55
    I know as a first-time homeowner I had to learn all of the things around homestead, hope setting my property.
  • 01:30:02
    I had never heard of that before because I was a renter.
  • 01:30:05
    So just coming into those spaces, it does change it.
  • 01:30:09
    But I still think there's like an education piece that I would love to see or an opportunity piece that I would love to see the county work with us on.
• • SPEAKER_00
  • 01:30:20
    Good morning, Mr.
  • 01:30:20
    Chair, Madam Chair, Commissioner, and I'd just like to make a quick announcement here.
  • 01:30:23
    This is hot off the presses, so I'm very excited about this.
  • 01:30:27
    I've been with the Assessor's Office a long time, and today is Tax Day, right?
  • 01:30:32
    So appropriate that we are making.
  • 01:30:35
    Our homestead for the first time is online starting today.
  • 01:30:39
    so the homestead application for residents and homestead is a very important exclusion for residents because it really it really helps mitigate some of the regressivity so today homestead market value exclusion can be applied for online also for the property tax refund if residents go to PTR space MN just type that into a search engine it should take you right to all the information
  • 01:31:09
    for the property tax refund, which is a state program that we talk about constantly because it's a very valuable thing.
  • 01:31:16
    There are a lot of professional organizations trying to make this become more of an automatic thing, but there is some heavy lifting behind the scenes.
  • 01:31:24
    So as you talk to your fellow electeds and you talk about property tax refund, PTR,
  • 01:31:33
    just ask questions about how it could be automatic to your other elected colleagues.
  • 01:31:38
    Just keep the conversation going was all that I would ask because there is probably a way to dine on this.
  • 01:31:44
    It may take a couple of years but it could be an automatic thing where we don't have to have the resident applying and some of the barriers that that creates.
• • Nelsie Yang
  • 01:31:55
    Thanks.
  • 01:31:56
    Before I go to you, Councilmember Jost, I just want to name that we are at time, so if any of the council members have questions or comments, please send them to Camude so that we can get them over to our Ramsey County guests.
  • 01:32:07
    Councilmember Jost.
• • Saura Jost
  • 01:32:09
    Thank you, Chair.
  • 01:32:09
    I will make my comments, questions, super quick.
  • 01:32:13
    I really appreciate Councilmember Johnson's comments about these charts on 11 and 12.
  • 01:32:19
    I think they're really, really helpful, and someone who really likes data just makes me want a lot more information, so I think the things I'm
  • 01:32:25
    I know you guys probably can't provide all this to me, but I'll just share the things I'm really curious about too are the median home values and then also the median incomes in these neighborhoods.
  • 01:32:35
    I don't know the most recent data we have.
  • 01:32:38
    And then also these tax changes are percentage changes from year to year, but they don't necessarily tell you what is the total amount of the overall levy that each of these neighborhoods is carrying.
  • 01:32:52
    Even though downtown has a really low
  • 01:32:55
    Committee.
  • 01:33:08
    of City Council.
  • 01:33:28
    making sure I did that process.
  • 01:33:30
    And then lastly, our renters do also have a renter refund too as well.
  • 01:33:35
    Is that information in the resources that you shared too?
• • SPEAKER_08
  • 01:33:41
    Chair, council members, that program is automated now within your income taxes.
• • Saura Jost
  • 01:33:47
    Oh, it is.
  • 01:33:47
    Okay, I didn't know that.
• • SPEAKER_00
  • 01:33:50
    Great.
  • 01:33:50
    Recent change.
• • SPEAKER_08
  • 01:33:51
    Yeah.
  • 01:33:52
    And chair, council members, thank you for your comments, your feedback.
  • 01:33:58
    and I do have a lot of that information I'm happy to provide.
  • 01:34:01
    I actually have a slide that will show median income to bring into the tax slide so we can compare median income to tax dollars paid.
• • Saura Jost
  • 01:34:12
    Great.
  • 01:34:13
    That would be great.
  • 01:34:14
    So I could do that on my own.
• • Nelsie Yang
  • 01:34:14
    All right.
  • 01:34:16
    Well, thank you both again for presenting to us today.
  • 01:34:19
    And with that, I will adjourn our meeting.
  • 01:34:21
    OK.